Money and class
September 13, 2022
This link from Nicole and Maggie resonated: Rob Beckett: It’s weird to be a working-class man breeding middle-class children.
It IS weird raising kids in a higher social class than we grew up in. I grew up with no money, working the family business whenever needed and whatever it was, starting at the same age JB is now.
The summer I turned seven, I spent late nights packing crabs for/with my parents. It was so long ago I don’t even know what we were packing them for but I learned to pay attention to grabby claws pretty quickly. When I was nine, I was cashiering after school and weekends at their business. I loved the actual act of cashiering but was more ambivalent about the business that took every ounce of my parents’ time and attention. My accomplishments, such as they were in middle school, were just expected, not celebrated. They didn’t have the time or energy for me or them.
I met kids in middle and high school, whose parents were successful entrepreneurs, doctors, pharmacists, or stay at home parents. Their parents were either too busy for them (but wealthy) or they were always around and comfortable financially. I never fit in with anyone on that basis. I worked for my spending money in high school, and then had to work to pay our bills after high school graduation. None of them had to work a day if they didn’t want the spending money. Their expenses were always paid. It was awkward being the only one who always worked every weekend, every holiday, every chance we had to hang out.
I am still mildly mortified at misunderstanding references to “white coats”, not making the connection that it was a doctor thing, in my mid-20s. It’s funny though, I don’t think I understood why I felt like a fish out of water for so long.
Now as we’re raising our kids, we’re conscious of all the luxuries we have that are just normal for them and discuss this openly with JB. We want them to know that this wasn’t easy to come by and that we have to be good stewards of our money. That latter bit is the poverty background talking, I bet. I always worry it’ll all go away with one severe illness. My family of origin lost everything just before mom got seriously sick. I wasn’t privy to all the details so I just assume it was a combination of bad luck and Dad’s bad money management. I know it wasn’t because of her illness, but she was in despair that she could never get back on her feet financially because she was too sick to work much at all. Ugh that brought back a lot of feelings.
We discussed the fact that we don’t know what other people have and are comfortable spending, but when we do see them making choices, we should respect their decisions just as we expect people to respect our decisions.
I’m trying to shift my mindset so we can model developing our own sense of balance and choices. To do that, we need to learn to understand ourselves: what feels right or good or wrong or bad and understand how that impacts our relationship with money.
We let them learn what felt good and what didn’t about spending at Comic Con, and talked to them about how that should inform their decisions about how to approach spending situations.
They had a gift budget from their aunties and uncles and they discovered that they really liked spending ALL of it. That’s the polar opposite of me: whatever my budget is, I always want to reserve half of it. So for JB, that means they should pick their dollar amount to spend before going into a spending situation that makes sense with their bigger picture, and then they can spend that set budget without worrying or guilt. Don’t be that guy, we said, who was fighting with his wife at the Convention saying “A $1000 Skeletor bust is what savings is FOR!”
Related: college plans for the kids
I don’t know what they’ll want to do or where they’ll want to go for college but we’ll have to start having those conversations soon to lay groundwork too. We have been saving for JB since they were born, and now that Smol Acrobat is here, my plan is to split that one account down the middle. I’m also planning to split their gift money that’s cash in half too. I sort of wonder how fair or unfair that is.
JB’s had 6 years more of gifts than Smol Acrobat. We don’t know how long the cash gifts will continue, and we certainly don’t expect them to continue for predictable periods of time. Given that, I am collecting all of it into a single pot and split that down the middle when the time comes to disburse as well. It has the benefit of being mostly simple and it gives both kids an equal amount no matter who the gifts came from and when. My premise is that they shouldn’t get vastly different amounts solely because JB came first and accumulated more. Some people who loved and cared for JB aren’t around for Smol. I wouldn’t want Smol to only get 10% of the total gift money for their future, due simple to timing, just like I wouldn’t want it to be lopsided the other way around if people happened to be more present and generous during Smol’s time instead of JB’s.
However, I will set up a savings account for each kid to save for themselves. JB is earning an allowance and has to put away half for long term savings. It doesn’t make sense to commingle THOSE savings.
How would you handle savings, big and small, for your dependents?
It is weird. My childhood (and my husbands) was pretty middle class, and our kid is going to grow up rich in comparison. Aside from money, she will have two parents who understand various professional and academic systems and pathways in a way neither sets of our parents really did. Maybe it isn’t going to be relevant by the time she is ready for college!
Since we only have one, it is pretty simple. I think I’ve posted about our strategy before, which (for now) relies on prioritizing megabackdoor Roth primarily, with a v. small 529 for any gifts (we don’t get much for cash gifts) or just to start. I’ll probably revisit in a few years.
I absolutely do wonder if our knowledge will be of any use to our kids by the time they’re going through early adulthood. It’s knowledge might be the most useful, of the four of us 😅
I think I’ve shifted our strategy twice since JB was born so I’m embracing the idea that our plans may have to be more dynamic than I’m particularly comfortable with.
Thanks for the reminder to check on the kid accounts! We created a savings account for each of them as a baby and I occasionally compare how much they have/had at a given age so I can see if we need to adjust our own contributions to try to balance it out. (Our relatives gift very fairly & evenly but the difference in which year other random windfalls show up + the differing interest rates over time leads to some fluctuations.) I’ve only had to rebalance it a couple times and I don’t know whether this is really the best way to do it. But I think it’s working?
Class is definitely an fascinating phenomenon and that looks like an interesting book. We’re a smidgeon higher on the economic scale than my parents were and sometimes I definitely get uneasy about how much we’re spending. Not because it’s actually a problem for us now, but simply because it would have been a problem back then (or even just earlier in our married life). But my husband’s family spent quite a bit higher on some things than what we can afford, even now, so our spending level still leaves him feeling a bit chafed and constrained. I guess that’s what marital compromise is about? Making sure everyone is equally uncomfortable? 😛
You’re welcome! How far apart in age are yours? Are you aiming for each to get the same amount by, say, age 18? That’s my current thinking, roughly.
Haha re: marriage – yes. That’s how we worked for a long time until we got comfortable with our respective discomforts. Now I feel like we can spend a *little* more freely with less constraint ok big stuff and fuss (mentally as a kneejerk reaction about spending too much overall) and HE worries that we might be spending too much when I take the brakes off on the big stuff and doesn’t sweat the small stuff. 🤣. Just as long as it’s equal for both parties.
Ours are stair-stepped 2 + 2 years apart, so we’ll (probably) have a college freshman, a highschool junior, and a highschool freshman at the same time. I think at that point we’ll do one final rebalance if necessary, and then stop comparing totals & just keep our contributions even.
Thanks for sharing!
Our kids don’t really get money as gifts either.
We’ve committed to paying full freight for their colleges of choice no matter how we end up having to do that.
We don’t force them to save their allowance at all. DC1 rarely spends. DC2 used to spend regularly but since the pandemic hasn’t really had spending opportunities. So they’ve both been naturally saving.
We are matching DC1’s summer earnings this year to put into a ROTH IRA, or at least we will once that finishes going through. The rest of the money will be for spending next year in college, I guess!
Our wills currently are normal and have my sister as executor should something happen to us. There’s also life insurance until DC1 is 25. No trusts or anything. When we’re older if we have more money we will have to look into whatever the tax situations are and I guess see a lawyer about our options. But for now we’re nowhere near an inheritance tax and it’s not so much money that it could destroy a kid’s life.
Money gifts are a very our-culture thing to do so they’ve accumulated a fair bit but I also lump our savings for them into that pot.
I’m probably way more tightly wound than you are about teaching our kids to save intentionally given my family history!
In hindsight, our trust was probably not necessary. But what’s done is done.
[…] Money and class from A Gai Shan Life […]
DH and I are now starting to talk about how we handle money with the kids and how much we want to save for college for LO now that they are en route. It’s been rough since we come from really different financial upbringings. I feel like I’m going to be a lot more aggressive about setting things up in such a way that our kids have to make choices and consider trade offs about how to use their money, whereas my husband is much more about maximizing their opportunity (even if that comes at a higher cost). I definitely don’t want my kids to experience the financial anxiety I did as a child, but I do want them to build up the capacity to choose and optimize the right path for them, assuming some real world constraints.
In terms of financial vehicles, we only get deductions up to $2k/year in MA for 529s, so we’ll probably max that out and also try to max out the kids’ Roth IRAs once they start working. Beyond that, I think we’ll have a segregated brokerage account for their long-term investments.
Those are two very valid perspectives and I wouldn’t know how to square them, either. Obviously! 🙂
But also obviously, I’m more in your corner with the need for them to learn the skill of making choices, given constraints. That muscle is invaluable to have.
I think we are in a bit of a weird/unique position. Although my parents were much financially better off, they were so frugal/stingy. So while my financial situation is not as strong, I think my child will have a lot more diverse experiences and things. Also, we live in a much different environment in terms of cost of living, etc. Things have changed so much since I was growing up.
Oh yes, that’s going to be so different for Spud too! We have different value systems even if we didn’t have more money.
We still make the kids work even though we have enough money that they don’t need to. If they want to buy something that’s nonessential, they can use their own money. The older one is a natural saver. He spends almost nothing and has always been like that. The younger one is more balanced and does spend and share money with friends readily. He saves a bunch too. Neither have ever had allowances. If they really wanted something they could get paid for around the house jobs in addition to their normal chores. They still had lots of toys and we’d shop tag sales for $1 toys when they were little. They got a lot from family at the holidays too.
I’ve had family members ruined by handouts…It’s hard to start working when you could get away with not doing it for so long. It was the one thing I was super paranoid of. Raising a deadbeat, as my dad was one as well.
I plan on paying the bulk of college for my kids but they should have some skin in the game. Haven’t figured the best way to do this yet. Maybe make them get some federal loans and pay at the end if they graduate and maintain a certain gpa?
How did you decide what was a standard chore and what was a payable chore? I’d love examples, as we tweak our system.
Even without an allowance, JB has PLENTY of toys and gifts so we don’t feel bad at all about making them save.
Ah, yes I think about the “ruined by handouts” as bit of a chicken and egg situation. I wonder which came first and definitely dwell a lot on how to instill integrity and grit in our kids so they can have a healthy balance between doing their best on their own and asking for help when they truly need it but not going to extremes on either side.
As you figure out the college money balance, I’d love it if you were able to share your thinking.